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Massey Discussion Forums :: Massey Talk :: Massey-Harris 12-20 View modes: 
User avatar
Posted: 2/1/2013 10:20:52 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Okay.  Here's a question for you U-Frame knowledgeable folks.  What were the primary changes from the 12-20 to the Pacemaker?

My 1936 Pacemaker was the 129th one built per it's serial number (107129).  A couple of people have commented that it has some 12-20 features, perhaps carried-over inventory?  In particular, the drawbar set-up, which has wider drawbar with less thickness than what I generally see on Pacemaker's.  (Which, by the way, on my tractor is broken-off just behind the support - a good indication that it needed to be thicker metal!)

Here is a photo of my Pacemaker in its mostly original glory.  Comparing it to the 12-20 above, I can see that the radiator top casting is different, both in the size of the riveted-on Massey-Harris name plate, and in the radiator cap.

What are other key differences between the 12-20 and unstyled Pacemaker?

Thanks,

    JB

Post attachments:
Pacemaker-1936.jpg

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User avatar
Posted: 2/1/2013 11:05:34 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Hello John

There are several external differences the 12-20 has:-

1. Sliding gate three forward speed gearbox
2.Steering box on the outside of U frame with shaft to cast iron steering wheel
3.Handbrake wheel on top shaft of gearbox
4. Water pump on front of timing cover driven from magneto shaft
5. Kingston governor with early style top cover and open centre shaft
6. Radiator flip over water fill top
7. Screw on front badge on radiator both Wallis and M-H, also some cast into top
8. Early Wallis 12-20 had "Wallis" cast into engine block, later allumimium plates fitted.
9. Flat spoke front steel wheel spokes
10. Starting handle with flared ferrule on the end
11. Throttle, advance and heat control rods had no knobs on the ends at drivers end
12. Engine speed butterfly in vaporisor not carburetor
13. Early 12-20 belt pulleys cast iron, later fibre larger diameter than PA
14. Early 12-20 had no belt pulley brake wheel and linkage from clutch control
15.Smaller kerosene tank than PA
16. Different length hood to PA
17.Chaff screen different size to PA
18. Flat fan belt with early screw tensioner
19. Cast iron sump inspection covers, mounted on the inside of U frame, wing nuts out
20 Front axle H section, round radius rods with adjusting nuts.
21.Tool box on platform
22. Seat spring and mounting
23. Wider fan shroud
24. Flip over engine oil filler cap
25. Spark plugs 90 degrees to head
26. Smaller diameter oil filter housing under U frame

These are just a few observations and I am sure I have left plenty for others to chime in with, together with several internal differences.

Malcolm.


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User avatar
Posted: 2/2/2013 6:57:39 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Thanks Malcolm.  That is certainly an extensive list!  Makes me wonder if the list of parts that were the same might be shorter than the list of those that were different??


JB


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User avatar
Posted: 2/2/2013 1:12:34 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

JB, Interesting to see your Pacemaker as I have Pacemaker number 107133 only 4 after yours. From 107001 to 107124 Pacemakers had the 12-20 radiator top tank with screw on name plate and oval flip cap (thats is if the parts book is correct). Another peice of carry over inventory on a later Pacemaker I have is the front of the U frame that has no big holes just two small holes for the serial number tag of the 12-20, this one is about mid production of the Pacemaker and I know Malcolm has one just the same. Has any one else seen this on a Pacemaker?

Post attachments:
Rivers-20130201-00591.jpgRivers-20130201-00593.jpg

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User avatar
Posted: 2/3/2013 9:23:12 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

I think another difference between PAs and 12-20s according to the evidence on tractors I have here is that the 12-20 belt pulleys have quite a bit larger diameter

A practical difference is that the PAs are much easier to crank as they sit higher up than the 12-20s - maybe men were shorter in those days!

And were all the 12-20s kerosenes (paraffin, TVO) ??????? whereas the PAs were gas or kerosene- or was it just the red PAs that had the option?

Maybe someone can clarify?

John


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User avatar
Posted: 2/3/2013 4:03:55 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Two more 12-20 features on Malcolms list I have seen on early Pacemakers are the flip over oil filler cap and the 12-20 style front steel wheels. The rubber front wheels on JBs Pacemaker have different hubs than the ones I have seen on Pacemakers. Maybe these are early ones too? John, as far as I know the green PA and CH are only kerosene.


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User avatar
Posted: 2/3/2013 4:49:45 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Graham:

I have the remains of pacemaker # 107205 here and it has the front plate with no large holes just as yours. I also have Pacemaker # 107356 and that one has the large holes in the front.

Now just have to get more numbers so we can find out just when they ran out of the leftover fronts from the 12-20 Wallis or #12 Massey.

Joe


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User avatar
Posted: 2/4/2013 8:45:19 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Joe,
The interesting thing is my Pacemaker with the 12-20 front is number 108535 and I am sure Malcolm's is 108207 and I have number  108355 with large holes. Number 107133 also has the large holes.     
It  would be interesting to list  numbers with the 12-20  fronts to see if there is any  pattern.


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User avatar
Posted: 2/5/2013 7:06:00 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Hmmm....   I thought I had replied to this last night, but I don't see it here today...

Like Graham's s/n 107133, my s/n 107129 also has the large holes in the front.  Perhaps one day midway through production of the unstyled Pacemaker, someone discovered a pile of 12-20 front plates and decided to insert those into the Pacemaker production line..

By the way, those "large holes" are the mounting holes for the Challenger front end assembly, correct?  The Pacemaker and Challenger did share the same u-frame components, didn't they?

Maybe this can lead to a Pacemaker serial number registry??

Cheers,

  JB


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User avatar
Posted: 2/19/2013 6:55:15 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

It's time to add a bit more to the 12-20 thread now I am able to post again.

Here is some advertising of the Wallis 12-20, first two photo's are taken from the Massey Harris Review newspaper with the announcement of the the new 12-20 tractor, also some nice images from the Wallis 12-20 and 20-30 mailer.
 

Malcolm.
 


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