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Massey Discussion Forums :: Massey Talk :: Massey-Harris 12-20 View modes: 
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Posted: 2/27/2013 2:43:31 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

1936 was certainly an interesting year in the U frame Massey development, we all think of the introduction of the Green unstyled Pacemaker making it's appearance that year with the few changes in design etc, an extra 4th gear in the new style gearbox, introduction of the vee fan belt, much improved water pump now placed on the front of the engine block, improved Kingston governor, speed butterfly now in the Kingston carburetor, round spoke front steel wheels, steering box positioned differently, smaller toolbox re positioned on top of gearbox with gear positions marked in raised letters on lid, new style seat mounting springs, round screw on radiator cap etc

We see all these features on the Green Pacemakers, but if you take a close look at early literature for this New Model the photographs show some features from the 12-20's, including the iconic flip over radiator cap and flat spoke front steel wheels.

Over the years I have always been looking for a Green PA with these early features and only ever heard of three tractors with these, one such tractor appeared here in UK at the Malvern Indoor tractor show in 2012 of which I had heard about from Lyn Jones who imported the tractor a few years ago, the tractor is now owned by Dale Edwards who has sent me these excellent photographs below to share with you all, he has been following this thread with great interest but unfortunately cannot contribute due to the restrictions to members.

Anyway please enjoy Dale's tractor, to me it is just a lovely tractor which retains a lot of it's working life character, he also enjoys working and using it too which enhances the tractor too.
One of the others tractors I saw with these early features was on the famous Ebay site a few years ago in Western Canada with a very high starting price, does any one on here know of it's current statues?

Malcolm.

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User avatar
Posted: 2/27/2013 7:12:54 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Malcolm/Dale:

Thanks for sharing the pictures with us. It really makes it look even older with the top of the fenders off, you don't see them that way very often. I am guessing the fenders may have been bent up badly so they were just removed?? Either way it looks very cool that way.

Do you think that it was sold new with the flip cap? Being it is red now and looks to have been for many years I am guessing it was repainted sometime in it's life, Possibly it may have recieved an older radiator top at that time? Do you know what the serial # is? Was it built late in 1936 enough to sprout the new 1937 Red colors?

I do remember seeing that one on ebay some time back but don't remember if it sold or not.

I wish I could do something about getting Dale on here to contribute to the chatter but it is not up to me, it was an MCA decision that was made to keep out unwanted spammers and I can't blame them on that one because it does happen.

The only other way to get Dale on here is talk him into joining the MCA........ It may sound like alot of money for him but in todays day from where you are located it is probly the same price as 3-4 gallons of fuel. That is enough to keep a tractor idoling for about 1 day but put the money toward the MCA and it will keep you going all year long!!  Just a thought....

Either way I am glad he participated through you as I look foward to imput like this, it makes my day....

Joe


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User avatar
Posted: 2/27/2013 7:21:02 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Joe,

Those mudguards interested me too.

Why?  Because they are in exactly the same condition as the red Pacemaker I bought at my great uncle's retirment sale and which you have seen both in the flesh and on the family tractor thread.  In my case I can vouch for the fact that they had simply rotted away in the acid air of industrial Manchester.  In fact come to think of it my Grandfather's U frames went the same way - see the pic I posted of his 25-40.  Maybe it was a specific weakness of the quality of MH tin?  I can imagine the sotty acid air depsoiting on the flat surface of the mudguards but less so on the verticla section - hence they survived more.  The air quality was so bad in hose days that even barbed wire would rot in about 5 years.

I had a word with Lyn Jones and he advised me that the tractor originally came from the Candian Prairies.  It is most unusual for such rot there - a feature of Prairie origin tractors is usually the excellent quality of their tinwork.

Here is a pic of my Pacemaker as I bought it in 1968 - WOW 45 years ago!!!  It was the second tractor I ever acquired - the first only a few days earlier was my wide front green Challenger

I should perhaps add that bonnets could rot away on the U frames over here too.  Those on my wide front green Challenger and single front green Challenger had almost gone to dust.  Of course the original bonnets are very thin. My red Pacemekr bonnet was also on the way out.  But ones I have had from N America have been very good.

John

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User avatar
Posted: 2/27/2013 9:57:51 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Dale, Nice early Pacemaker. I beleve the serial number is 107110 am I correct? This will answer your question about the 12-20 radiator top Joe. acording to the parts book they were fitted up to number 107124 and JBs Pacemaker number 107129. Has the newer stile top, so these two are close to the change over.


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User avatar
Posted: 2/28/2013 2:33:19 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Yes Graham's confirmation of the serial number is correct, Dale emailed last night to confirm and he says there are no traces of green paint anywhere, not even under the layers of red pait or under the fuel tank etc.

We have an original import M-H 12-20 in the west country restored and been in the same family ownership for many years which has always been red, another 12-20 in original farm condition which has been through Cheffins auctions on two occasions has always been red and I have the remains of one which has been stripped for parts, the U frame has definately always been red.

Dad used to tell me about four unstyled 25's painted red from new and working on a large estate farm here in the Lincolnshire Wolds, he used to ride his bike eight to ten miles over the hills to see them working together in the fields, he said it was quite a sight to see four ploghing inline together, he always wanted one to go with his 12-20.

We had better not get into the colour debate on here otherwise it may take over the  entire website!!

Now getting back to the PA's and the early differences discussed yesterday, here are some of my sales brochures showing the flip over radiator cap, flat spoke front wheels and flip over engine oil filler.

Malcolm.

Post attachments:
Feb-13-Green-PA-008.jpgFeb-13-Green-PA-009.jpgFeb-13-Green-PA-010.jpgFeb-13-Green-PA-011.jpg

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User avatar
Posted: 2/28/2013 2:42:05 AM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Here are a few more interesting early PA advertising brochures, the famous small M-H foldout and a larger catalogue issued by M-H dealer R J Stephens of Pershore Worcestershire, England.

Also note with these two brochures the lettering on the hood, Masey-Harris on one and Pacemaker on the other, we have seen this with green Ch's, photographs of Massey Harris on the hood of early tractors and later ones Challenger. 

Malcolm.

Post attachments:
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User avatar
Posted: 3/1/2013 3:57:21 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

If anyone is interested. Just recieved a flyer form Aumann's Auctions. There wiil be an auction at the Tired Iron Tractor Museum on March 13& 14 in Leicester, NY. there is a Wallis 12-20, MH-GP Massey 25, and a Challenger listed.


Steve

Steve

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User avatar
Posted: 3/2/2013 4:11:59 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Dale, Very interesting to hear your Pacemaker has no green paint under the red. The 12-20 style front wheels on the Pacemaker have a different part number in the book than the 12-20, the axle and wheels on my early Pacemaker have been changed to the later style so if you could look at the casting number on the hubs on your tractor I would be interested to know if it is differnt to the 12-20


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User avatar
Posted: 3/2/2013 5:10:55 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Steve, I would be interested in the Wallis and the Masseys, it would be nice if it was a little closer to Manitoba,it could cost quite bit hauling them home.


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User avatar
Posted: 3/2/2013 8:32:33 PM
   

RE:Massey-Harris 12-20

Graham, I'm not in a much better location then you. I'm in Illinois, St. Louis area.

Steve

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