No that was the OK Ervin got.

Yet more interesting early Wallis discussion here, pleased to see some "K" debate going on, in answer to Graham's question about the different steering unit pictured, so far I have not come across one of these on a surviving tractor, has anyone else? 

Regarding the K no 17594 at Yuma, this was a very nice running tractor at the Jim Decker auction in 1994 when Larry bought it, somewhere I have some photographs of it on the sale day.

Now another question for Joe, Tom and others, I have often wondered why my early K no 11823 has two oil pumps? they both feed the same pipework which fills the drip trays. Are there many tractors out there with this? is it just "K's" or has any Cub Jnr's wide or narrow front got this?

Malcolm.

Malcolm:

I think Tom has a tractor with two oil pumps on it, don't know the reason possibly for hill sides??

Got a bit done on the new Cub jr, it took about 3 day to get the head off. Someone started to take it apart many years ago and couldn't get the head off so gave up and stuck the pushrods under the valve cover and closed it back up. Got the engine out but not unstuck yet, frame will need some holes welded up but the project is looking promising so far.

Got some better pictures of the oil return system. This is designed to pick up the excess oil that goes over the baffel plate with the flywheel as it is spinning and fling it up through the 3 holes then let it flow back into the crankcase. It must not have been a very good success as you can see someone put corks in the holes and blocked it off and the later Cub jrs don't have this system at all.

Malcolm:

A couple things you need to be on the lookout for if you don't already have them in your parts pile. One is the early style primer valves they only turn one way and have a long extention pipe on the inside of the manifold so the gas you squirt in goes directly into the cylinder and doesn't fall back down into the carburetor. The other is the early style fan with the ring arround the outside.

Joe

Malcolm, Our 15-27 has two oil pumps, my opinion is the second pumps were fitted when the engine was rebuilt after engine failure. I think it was done to try to improve lubrication. I also have a 20-30 that has been on a local farm from new (number 60893) with an oil system modification. It has been fitted with a presure fed crank and an oil filter, this was done early in the tractors life after the crankshaft failed. Oil filters were not fitted on production tractors until number 64156. I have seen one other done like this, has anyone else?

Here are two of the tags fitted to 20-30s sold in Canada after the Massey Harris take over. The second one is usually found on the Massey Harris 20-30. The interesting thing about this tag is it is on a Wallis, I had thought maybe the radiator had been changed at some time. But the man I bought it from said it in his area from new and as far as he knew it had always been a Wallis. Also this tractor has never been repainted and the only paint that can be found is grey and you can still read Wallis on the hood. I have a Massey Harris 20-30 wich is not many numbers after this one and it is green.

Graham:

If we keep at this a couple more years we may just find out the exact serial number of the changeover from Wallis to Massey, but in the meantime it is fun just seeing all the different combinations that are ot there and different tractors that have parts on that in our minds should not be on them.

Malcolm/Graham, in all your years of being around Wallis Tractors have you ever come across an engine with the tappet guide holders cast into the block and are not removable??

Working on the Cub jr engine yesterday trying to get the camshaft loose with no luck so far, I think I may have to cut the camshaft in several pieces to get it out of the engine and cut or grind the tappets out of the block so I don't break the block where these tappet holders are cast into the block.

This is one of them things I just had to walk away and think about it a while before I break something, it appears there may be at least one crack in the holder just from the rust expanding over the years on the tappet lifter. The Wallis designers definatly wern't thinking of old Joe having to work on this 98 years later when they came up with this Idea.....

This is the only engine I have ever seen with this setup with it cast right into the block, none of my other Cub jrs or Model Ks are like this. I can't find any information in the books I have that mentiion anything about this style block used.

Here are three pictures of what I am talking about and the fourth is what you usually see on a Model K engine.

Joe

Joe,

Each day this MCA website gets more and more interesting for the development of kowledge on all Wallis and Massey subjects, it is such a reference of information for collectors of the future, so I hope the MCA committee has now understood and appreciates the NEED for this information to be retained with the relevant back ups made so it is never lost.

Well Joe I am now going to have to take a hand hole cover off K 11823 tonight and refresh my memory of the cam followers in there as I don't recall seeing this before, interesting it is not in any of the parts books etc.

Time and patience is of the essence here so keep squirting plenty of penetrating fluid around , walk away and come back a few times, a bit of heat from the torch might just help and a few taps here and there could loosen some of the rust, I would try some of these measures before thinking of cutting up the camshaft.

Interesting also seeing the primers on the inlet manifold, never seen those before going right into the cylinders,  I like the cork plugs someone put in the oiling system, shows it was not a great success.

Keep us posted of progression and you need a trip down to Oklahoma to check out the features on the oldest known surviving Cub Jnr so far, wonder if it has all these??

Malcolm.

Joe,

Just been inside 11823 tonight and it is the style we are fmiliar with, bolted cam follower housings and not cast into the block, so todays photographs of your tractor is a first for me, now we need Graham, Tom and Ervin to chime in to see if they have run across this.
Also answered one of my own questions inside the U frame tonight,  the second oil pump has a feed pipe to the front main crankshaft bearing oil resevoir, so I bet your correct Joe it's to stop the front main starving of oil when the tractor is going up hill and the oil runs to the back.of the U frame.

Malcolm.